Why can't you modify your rules, so that when a pro requests a merge with a non-pro, the non-pro can be allowed to approve a pro-initiated merge? Forcing both sides to be pro for a merge, or requiring private profiles (even temporarily) to become public, will result in people being discouraged from merging trees . . . an already cumbersome and messy process to begin with. Think of it as an added benefit for pro membership: If a pro initiates a merge it can over-ride the merger restrictions on non-pros. Can you implement this benefit for pros?
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Dan Cornett Just to clarify: Is what you mean that a non-pro user currently cannot complete a merge on a private profile which they 'manage' -- but if a Pro user requested that merge, then the non-Pro user could respond to that merge request and cause it to complete? (Or to reject it, of course, if their information shows it is not the same profile and ought not be merged.)
One thing which has to be clear is whether the resulting merge will be public as a result of the merge (which may be the result, if one of the two is already public). For that reason, the manager of the originally private profile ought to be able to, after the merge, take that profile "back to private" -- with the recognition that the manager(s) of the other original profile will have the ability to make it public (since they now co-manage the profile), if it is deemed appropriate.
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FORMER USER I totally subscribe to what you say. I do not seek to use my pro status to overpower the non-pro's control or settings for a particular profile (e.g. to force a "public" setting on a private profile). Currently, restrictions placed on non-pro accounts are causing "collateral damage" to pro account-holders' ability to use their account (e.g. restricting pro-initiated mergers for no other reasons than the geni-imposed disability on non-pro accounts). I only wish to have geni.com increase non-pro user's authority a tiny bit, so the pro user is not harmed. Non-pro users would still:
1.) Be unable to initiate a merge
2.) Be able to control the privacy setting of the merged profile
3.) Be able to refuse the merge
To repeat: This slight increase in a non-pro's utilization rights would not really run afoul of geni's current business decision to significantly magnify the differences in access between pro and non-pro. Rather it enhances the pro-users' freedom to effect merges --- and it's to geni's advantage to allow accurate merges, and this enhances accuracy and information content which they seek to create this vast relationship tree they are building. Anything that suppresses this for no good reason, is actually working AGAINST geni's stated purposes. And there is no good reason to block a pro's ability to merge, where the merge is factually appropriate.
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Daniel James Birchall I've run across this as well. I'm a Pro with a lot of non-Pro relatives (I'm the one who started our tree), and my cousin's husband just told me recently that he can't approve a merge of his dad's wife, because of this. Of course, I have this tree match showing up on my home page - but I've already asked for the merge, and there's nothing more I can do.
Since Geni is already allowing only pros to ask for a merge, I see no point in disallowing non-pro managers to approve those merges - other than, I guess, making us Pros feel that the "extra feature" we get is useless, broken, or annoying. :(
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Paulo Pinto "A Geni Pro Member has the ability to [...] merge profiles with other trees to discover new branches [...]"
I'm surprised that this feature request even exists because it clearly states in the advert that Pro members are able to merge profiles.
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FORMER USER Mr. Pinto: Your surprise is unwarranted. I would suggest that you review carefully the comments associated with this request. Your quote states a partial truth.
A pro is only able to effect mergers under the following circumstances:
1.) Both profiles are managed by pros: Profiles can be merged, regardless of private or public status of profile. I haven't come across a sitaution where one was private and run by pros yet, but I am told this would still work.
2.) Both profiles are public: Any pro, regardless of management status can force a merge.
3.) Pro with private profile vs. non-pro with public profile: Merge is possible. What counts is the puiblic status of the non-pro-managed profile. However, only the pro can force the merge. The non-pro-side cannot merge.
In the following situation, pro status will NOT lead to a successful merge: A pro seeking to merge with a non-public, non-pro profile. In such situations, the pro can request a merge from the non-pro, but the non-pro cannot by tyhemselves, approve the merger, and the pro is left unable to proceed. The *only* solution here is for the non-pro to go through the time-consuming (and difficult to correctly do, as the owners of the profiles cannot easily "see" which ones are private) process of going through ALL the appropriate private profiles, and convert them to public. Once this is done, the pro must go back, undo the merge request, then immediately re-do it, and the merge will proceed. The original owner can then "re-privatize" the profile.
This situation is needlessly complex. It requires the non-pro to open each and every single profile subject to the desired merger, and check the "public" box, save the settings, and move on to the next profile, etc. etc. etc. The system instead should allow the pro (who requests the merger) to generate a request form delivered to the non-pro, listing the identity of all the profiles the pro seeks to merge. The received form should have a checkbox next to each profile that the non-pro can place a check-mark to indicate approval to the merge, while leaving the status of the merged profile private. Or perhaps have a second checkbox to indicate the status (private/public) of the merged profile.
Geni.com already has forms similar to this in its "Merge Issues" section --- which allows reconciliation and resolution of conflict.
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Daniel James Birchall Thanks for your input on this, David! And if two non-pro relatives of mine have both entered profiles for the same living person, I presume I have to persuade BOTH of them to make those profiles public?
What if I persuaded both of them to temporarily grant me manager status on the profiles? Or as non-Pros, would they be unable to do that?
Thanks again, everyone who's chimed in.
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Dan Cornett Hi, Daniel .... if they are relatives, the simpler method is to send them an invitation to Join Family Groups (under the Action button when viewing their profile). Once those invitations are accepted, you, as a Pro user, can merge the profiles -- and then y'all will *really* be family-connected then (because you have linked profiles within the "4th cousin radius". The "Invitation" is one of the easier ways to make the initial "join" when each of you became Geni members independently.
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Daniel James Birchall Thanks, Dan. Eh, family groups might be a LITTLE tricky.
The profile in question is my first cousin's husband's father's second wife.
One copy is managed by my (non-pro) cousin's husband (son of his father and his first wife). My wife and I are close to my cousin and her husband, so I'm sure he'd do anything in his power to help sort things out.
The other copy is managed by a (non-pro) person who appears to have the same parents as my cousin's husband, but whose exact relationship I'm a little unsure of. I'll have to ask my cousin's husband what the deal is there, and whether he thinks that person might be cooperative. But I'll ping the manager as well, just to see if they're active.
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FORMER USER Hi Dan (Cornett and Birchall):
With all due respect, Dan C., your approach has impracticalities which add roadblocks, and in my experience, it has not uniformly worked well. Here's why:
First of all, our old friend, human nature, rears its ugly head. Most people will respond with distrust, especially, newbie non-pros, when approached by a stranger, claiming to be a family member, and asking --- not to perform the limited task of merging a few specific profiles --- but to be allowed, wholesale, into the family group. Even if this is within the 4th cousin radius. If it's someone who one does not know, who is suddenly contacting you, in my experience your invite to join the family will be ignored. Period. And then you are stuck, having generated distrust by "over-reaching" with an overly-personal, overbroad request ("join our family, stranger"), you can no longer re-approach the newly balky non-pro, with an "OK, lets just try a couple of profile merges".
On the other hand, when approached by a stranger, claiming to be a relation, asking to merely merge a few profiles in common, ordinarily people are far less suspicious and cooperative about this --- or at least they **would** be, if only the merges could be made in a forthright and simple manner without all the senseless rigmarole! In fact, on many, many occasions, when I had an initially cooperative non-pro, prepared to work with me to merge a profile, the initial spirit of cooperation evaporated when I (the pro) had to explain the oddly complex steps needed to effect a merge: e.g. not just to give consent, but to remove private status (and there you trigger yet *another* alarm, for people who value their privacy, resulting in more instances of a merge partner ceasing cooperation).
Another problem: How many pros have found themselves outside of the 4th cousin radius, needing to fix a glaring error that could be simply solved by a merger? Maybe I'm the only one in this situation, but asking to join the family of strangers just to address this one issue is completely absurd and should not be necessary!
Yet another problem: Even if you DO use the "Invite to family" approach, this is not a cure-all! Invariably, even if the invite is accepted, there will often still be "islands of grey" (sometimes entire continents of grey!) which will balk your merger efforts, and for whom the "invite" option will not easily work. Dan C. says that one can " send [a non-pro] an invitation to Join Family Groups (under the Action button when viewing their profile)." But this begs the question I must now ask: How do you extend an invite for a profile you can't even open or look into??? (and see also below regarding the availability of the invite option, from the tree-view).
Still another problem (I am not sure about this one, however): Even assuming the human nature concern raised above was not a problem, does the 4th cousin radius work where there is no consanguinity? For instance: Adoption? In-law trees, in-law trees of in-law trees, and so on?
Lastly, I want to bring up an odd system behavior (concerning invites to join the family) that does not make sense to me. At seemingly random intervals that do not make any sense or logical pattern, in the tree view, a greyed-out (private and/or distant) profile box will have one of those blue "More" clickable drop down menus (most greyed profile boxes have nothing, and you can't even open the profile!!!). At equally random intervals, some (not all) of those relatively rare "More" drop down menus will include the option to "invite into the family." Assuming a pro wishes to use Dan. C.'s approach, and use the invite to defuse roadblocks, why not make the invites easier to find and implement? Heck . . . why not give access to the profile (even in a limited way) to allow the profile manager to be contacted, and an invite sent, even where there no "More" drop down menu exists?
IMHO, the "invite" option should never be the first step towards connecting with a new branch of the family. It is exceedingly forward and presumptuous! Initial contacts should be in the form of specific merged profiles, followed (once you get to know the new relatives) by such an invite, if the relationship becomes friendly enough.
For heavens' sake, why can't they just make the merger system easier?? Keep Pros as the only allowed originators (to keep geni happy about continuing with their "value-added" business plan), but make the merge happen with a simple "yes" from the non-pro?
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